Wednesday, November 15, 2006

Catching up...roundup

It's time to do a roundup and catch up on comments that I haven't been able to respond to lately.

Gracy asked about the APCD Board Meeting. Thanks for asking Gracy. It was very interesting. It's held at the Board of Supervisors office in Ventura. The meeting was packed and the facility is more grand than our council chambers. The APCD Board meeting is different than the Advisory Board that I am on. The APCD Board consists of the County Board of Supervisors and 5 elected officials from different cities. The Advisory board consists of 20 citizens who will provide input from a public level.

Basically the main topic of the day was to oppose a decision by the EPA to exempt the proposed BHP Billiton LNG terminal about 15 miles offshore, from any review by our APCD. There were many speakers, most in favor of opposing the EPA. The Board agreed to oppose the EPA. This took several hours. It's amazing the amount of work that goes into every little legislative act.

Anonymous 5:11 pm: What does this mean? "Is North Fillmore building a partial side road to Norway?" It sounds like a riddle to me and I don't have a clue.

Anonymous 8:43 am: I don't mean to ignore your comments but it's just that you are so prolific and you usually have 20 different statements to address that I just don't have the time to go through each one at length. And, I'm not being critical in a mean way about the writing - I just want you to know that it's difficult to respond when it's hard to read. I want to respond in a meaningful detailed way. That's a lot of work. Okay, with that said, I'll tackle a few of your points.

1. Citizens for Responsible Growth "pac" meetings. I've stated several times that the group is not a pac, has no money, no way to collect it or disburse it. What we are is just a bunch of concerned citizens. And, yes the meetings are open to the public. When we were meeting regularly, there were several times that we wrote in the Gazette the time, date and location. (Sundays at 2:00 at either River Street church or D and Sespe church). In several of my letters to the editor I gave out my phone number asking people to call me in case they wanted to participate. I believe Todd and maybe Ralph Rees publicly invited people at council meetings. Some how you missed all this and that's unfortunate if you wanted to participate. There were many people who showed up that I had no idea who they were or how they found out but they did. If we have meetings I usually try to email everyone to let them know. If you send your email address I will put you on my list.

2. If you are asking me about what Patti voted on the GP update, I don't know. I wasn't here and frankly it's kind of a moot point. It's also nitpicky. Those flyers were all garbage and just weak attempts that obviously didn't work. Nobody else read them either.

3. I've explained my view of the 894 vs. 700 situation many times in great detail. Your reasoning might be good but I can't follow it with the writing format. We just have to agree to disagree. You do have a good point about questioning city staff. But, I've read Roger Myers' opinion, heard his remarks, city council remarks, Kevin's remarks(tonight). The thing is, the situation is so ambiguous and conflicted that no one understands it.

Now I really want to get into the 1:14 pm comments but trying to read it is making my head spin. And, the reason I think you are getting too personal is that you go on too much about what Patti did in the past - on every rant. I can't address what happened in the past. I can barely keep up with what's happening now so you'll have to let it go and move forward.

You do mention the traffic study after each 100 homes. I can discuss that. Many people believe that traffic is NOW below our circulation levels of service. The traffic studies presented with the EIR stated that our levels of service are in compliance with our General Plan. I personally tested the levels of service at various signals in town and found them to be below a D. Traffic is a major issue to many people. If the traffic studies in the EIR deny that our level of service is not up to par now, why would that change after 100 homes are added?

You also talk about single family homes for $700,000. That's the price that Griffin's getting for Heritage Valley Parks. Those are large houses. I don't think all single family houses have to be that big. There can and should be a compromise between high density multi-family and huge single family. I live in a low income entry level neighborhood with houses in the mid-400's. That's a lot different than Griffin's $700,000. I think my neighborhood is about 8 du/acre. We're pretty crowded here. People shouldn't have to live in housing much more crowded than this.

As far as immigration, I do agree with you. If you grew up in Southern California I don't think you can be racist. We all grew up with our best pals being hispanic and vice versa. We have a common culture that's unique.

What do you mean that the information presented to the city council should have been more specific?

37 Comments:

At 11/16/06 6:37 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gayle thank you for your comments, I appreciate the time you do have. Please remember that you asked the questions and each one was answered thus the length of the post. Please forgive me, but to re-adress a couple of points. I do apologize, but if we do not learn from out past then we are bound to make the same mistakes. Thus, Patti has made the same mistakes that ClaireK and Gracy have accused others of Making, such as Ken and Diane. For example, the fact is that she did vote for 894 DU in north Fillmore, but has now changed her mind and feels that it needs to be lower. Diane wanted 700 and changed it to 480, Ken wantd 894, then 700 based on an interview in the sespe sun at some public gathering, then less then 700 based on his voting. Due to things such as this the history is clear, and what makes Patti comments personal is that she is so accusitory of others when her records show the exact same pattern as she accuses others of.
The PAC please look it on at Webster dictionary online service they will give a definition of a PAC, again they a special interest that influences, lobbies, candidates or sitting members of government to affect change in policy towards a specific agenda. While they may have no money, they are definately trying to influence others, and have you and Patti as running mates in this last election.
The referendum and city councils decisions is very clear and concise. Again the GP update is what needed to be changed, not the ordinance to change it to NFSP. as a result the NFSP can remain,
on the side, I noted in several other posts that kept talking about reverting the area to RL, and your calculations were 693, what is the difference between 693 and 700 other then a mear 7 units?
It seems that no one understands it because the result of their action was not the desired outcome. Otherwise it is exactly what the referendum asked for, maybe you should re-read the referendum and determine exactly what it asked for.
Gayle, please think about this for little bit, Griffins homes 7-9 DU inits per acre, Hometown 7-9 DU per acre, NFSP, 7-9 DU per acre, Your request for density, 7 DU per acre. Get it, this many units means average price at $700,000.00 Even hometowns smaller homes are selling for over 550,000.00 this simply is not "affordable" and "work force" housing. How many first time buyers can afford this? How many teachers, firemen, police officers, etc... can afford this? yet this is what you are asking for, thus again what is the comprimise?

 
At 11/16/06 7:16 AM , Blogger Gracy said...

Gayle,
Good luck with Anon 6:37, here he goes again.
It is so easy to rant, rave, and deny.
I agree with you Gayle, sometimes it is easier to just ignore someone who has an agenda and wont give it up.
All I see are LONG paragraphs of words, using up the space of others.
He is constantly repeating himself over and over and over. I read Patti this, Patti that, a PAC is this, a PAC is that, NFSP this, NFSP that. Gracy & Clarek always saying this and always saying that.
I read you Gayle, trying politely to answer his questions, yet to him. You don’t answer them correctly.

I have learned that there are some people you can NEVER make them happy.
The only thing to do is go on with life as though they are not there.
My answer to this Anon problem, ignore him and I will pray he will go away.

 
At 11/16/06 8:54 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 6:37
Are you a tweaker? Your ramblings don't make much sense but I’m sure they are “crystal” clear to you.

 
At 11/16/06 9:07 AM , Blogger clairek said...

RE: anon 6:37am

I think Diane or her husband is behind anon 6:37am. They are so obsessed with my husband and me because we dont agree with Diane McCall or approve of her positions. This election is over and we the voters decided on our council members. Yes , we will continue to be critical when its needed. Fillmore does need a watch dog group. For all of you people who disgree with us ,,oh well you will get over it!

I hope all concerned mothers will join me in watching out for the wrong doing's of our council members.

 
At 11/16/06 10:30 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with you clairek. It's apparent their are some sour grapes floating around in Fillmore. I would like to join the watch dog group.

 
At 11/16/06 11:46 AM , Anonymous YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS said...

HEY CLAIRE KENNEDY, ARENT YOU MISSING YOUR SOAP OPERA'S?
CERTAIN HOUSE WIVES ,SOCCER MOMS HAVE NOTHIN ELSE TO DO.

 
At 11/16/06 2:07 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

ClaireK... you're right the election is over and you still choose to point fingers.. get over yourself!

I suggest your watchdog group watch Patty since it's only a matter of time until she stirs up trouble or gets sensured again.

Oh isn't it time for General Hospital?

 
At 11/16/06 3:06 PM , Anonymous jareddude said...

thank the good Lord Smedley wont be on the council to stir the pot with his bogus code of ethics claims. In hind sight , Smedley is the one who violated the code of ethics along with the publics trust. patti will be an incredible asset for the city. i think the other blind sheep council member are jealous because they cant seem to climb out of their small yet ignorant box. Im sure Conaway will take over for Smedley, UNLESS by the grace of Joseph Smith Conaway will actually use some dignity that the people elected him to use.
why start pointing fingers at the Kennedy's? i think Fillmore is in need for a watch dog group. from Cuevas's traveling extraganzas to Conaways holyier than though, our town desperately needs a watch dog group. KEEP UP THE TERRIFIC WORK CLAIRE KENNEDY.

 
At 11/16/06 3:25 PM , Anonymous LA DODGERS RULE said...

Right on with the watch dog group. Let me know how we can get involved. Anyone who would be oppossed to this idea is obviously against accountability. Thanks Claire.

 
At 11/16/06 3:37 PM , Blogger Gracy said...

Clairek
I am with you and your watch dog group.

Ignore those insults, it is a matter of time before they stop writing on this blog.

Good luck

 
At 11/16/06 10:09 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gracy is making personal attacks all that you can do or do you actually have a brain that can function on a higher level?

 
At 11/16/06 10:12 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey know man, I showed this to a crack head and he seemed to undertand it, maybe if you laid off the LSD, mushrooms, and moui powi you might understand it too. But, then again maybe not.

 
At 11/16/06 10:14 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey claireK have you ever talked to Diane or her husband, or did you get your information from a flyer? how do you know what Diane's opinions are, when you have never asked her.

 
At 11/16/06 10:18 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gracy, it is called a dialog,ya know a conversation, a discussion. whichever personality it is and Gayle are discussing the issues in Fillmore, maybe you should try it, you might learn something.

 
At 11/16/06 10:28 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gayle isn't a PAC a Political ACTION Committee? By separating these words and taking the definitions from each word can't be infered that the committee takes political action to influences political officers? Thus, would it be safe to say that while money is a means to accomplish this, there is also lobbying, support for a specific candidate, vocalization at political events and meetings, etc...? So if this is the case then would it be fair to say that Anon definition of a PAC is correct in the nonformal regulated sense?

 
At 11/17/06 6:57 AM , Anonymous guess who ? said...

RE:ALL ANON
when u ask and ansewer your own questions,berate anyone that wont type as much as you. Is that really a conversation?

 
At 11/17/06 7:42 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

test

 
At 11/17/06 7:54 AM , Blogger Gracy said...

Anon 10:09PM
So sorry, but unlike you only having an 8th grade education.
My acumen is far advance than you can comprehend.
I have tried desperately to lower my standards.
I have attempted to have a normal colloquy with you and I have failed.
So like the other threads, I have concluded, you are a waste of my precious intellectual time.

Gayle, for now on I will respond to positive conversation and will not lower my standards to any vile negative comments that my be flung my way.

I do hope all will do the same.
Then this Blog can go forward and we all can enjoy each other’s company.

 
At 11/17/06 7:55 AM , Blogger Gracy said...

Clairek..
Here is a great word

Colloquy

 
At 11/17/06 9:18 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gracy..
How beautifully stated.
Yes let us all go on enjoying each others conversations.
Yes let us all ignore that Anonymous and continue this Blog in a positive manner.

 
At 11/17/06 10:54 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Patti or Gayle
In the city of South San Francisco there is a factory for See's Candies. It's a huge market up there and it would seem that SO.CA would welcome a much needed high figure factory. I think Fillmore would welcome See's Candy. After researching this idea , its seems they are looking for a location for another factory.

City of South San Francisco website

www.ci.ssf.ca.us/

 
At 11/17/06 2:39 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gracy you finally cleaned off the dictionary eh, maybe your shrewdness and keen insight can get your psychological issues back on track and focused to a higher then 1st grade level. It seems as though you are disassociating your id of today with your id of your childhood, thus are not capable of anything but a temper tantrum. So pick yourself off the floor, whip your tears and put down the national inqiurer, and start relaxing and enjoying the conversation.

 
At 11/17/06 2:54 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

RE:ALL ANON
when u ask and ansewer your own questions,berate anyone that wont type as much as you. Is that really a conversation? YES, because if you really look at it I answered Gayle's Questions and repsonsed to her Comments. It seems that Gracy and Clairek are only capable of smut, oh well they will never change nor would I want them I am having to much fun.

 
At 11/17/06 4:05 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh my is someone having a temper tantrum.
my he certainly didn't like what gracy said.
well i read what gracy said.
i will ignore the rudeness here too.
maybe that rude person will go away.

 
At 11/17/06 5:21 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Haha no one is ignoring me they are all responding to us anons.

 
At 11/17/06 6:36 PM , Anonymous Gayle Washburn said...

Everyone: Anonymous is still welcome here. He/she has a unique writing style but the content is still about the issues, which is important to me.

Anonymous also insists on bashing Patti although I'd like a more specific answer to ..."she is so accusitory(sic) of others"...could you give me an example of that?

We all don't have to agree on everything. In fact, I don't think that's possible. And, it's okay to discuss and argue. I would prefer that we stick to discussing issues, ideas and solutions rather than attacking one another.

Also, as far as the "PAC", which I have explained before many times, while some of the group's members may have participated in our campaign, the group itself had nothing to do with Patti and I running. And, in fact, we made an effort to try not to discuss the election in our meetings.

We put together a great campaign committee some of who had never been to a Citizens For Responsible Growth meeting.

The only other comment I will make on this is that maybe you are trying to draw attention away from the real PAC's, Friends of Fillmore and Citizens for Safer Fillmore and their tactics of destruction - that backfired by the way. Sorry but there is no comparison.

For some reason you have the wrong idea and nothing I can say will change your mind so let's move on.

Next item; the referendum is not clear and concise. At the Planning Commission meeting Roger Myers had to be put on the speaker phone from a remote vacation location to try and explain it. It's still a twisted confusion and the reason it can't be explained clearly is because it is too ambiguious. I showed you in black and white the tables and data from the Land Use Element. They state RL. They also state an "intended" master plan for 894. There was never a Master Plan initiated and now the NFSP is the Master Plan. It sounds like a conflict to me. It needs to be straightened out. What needs to be re-done is the Housing Element.

As far as the 693 vs. 700(99 ac vs 101), all that is, I believe, is that the 2 acres of city well property was thrown in to the specific plan mix. It's not really relevant.

I know what the referendum asked for and that was to stop the first of four legislative acts to adopt the NFSP. Since the first act fell, the rest fell. In Roger Myers OPINION, the land use designation doesn't matter. But, why did they do it anyway then?

I don't have time to go into the density again at the moment, but here's something to think about. The great "need" we have for housing doesn't exist at the moment since the long anticipated housing bubble is finally bursting. We have a glut of homes on the market right now that we haven't seen in many, many years.

I'm going to post a new topic with some links to read. Check it out.

 
At 11/18/06 1:02 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your friend, still will not believe!



Doubting Thomas

 
At 11/18/06 8:43 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

satan be gone

 
At 11/18/06 9:58 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon you are right, I do not believe with a lot and do with others. While I thank Gracy for at least acknowledging that we are having a dialog / “colloquy” before her personal attacks and I do appreciate Gayle’s interest in discussing the facts “I do not believe.”

From what have heard the reason Rodger is going into so much detail is because of you and Patti, the city council's decision is clear and concise. As you even have admitted the NFSP has become the master plan, thus the referendum needed to be focused to the 2003 GP Update. Think about it that would have started this whole thing over, industrial would have been the designation for the area, with RL residential. The city council would have had to start from Scratch. Please remember, I am questioning Patti’s motives here, her and that city council are the ones that got SUNCAL started on the project in the first. It did not happen over night, it has been in the works since 2002.

The GP update again as you have stated called for a master plan. While a master plan was not designed at the time of GP update, one of the elements of this decree by Patti and that city council was to allow up to 894 homes, you showed us this in your black and white paperwork you posted on the web and in the pages I illustrated for you. It is under the section that talks about the 5-20 DU up to 894 Max. Why you cannot see this I am not sure, other then to say that the GP gets confusing when it first talks of RL, and then of 894 with 5 - 20 DU, the thing to remember as soon as Patti and that city council voted to change the GP it changed it from RL to 894 with the change in designation from Industrial to residential. Under the industrial the GP called for RL, under Master plan designation it allows a master plan to be designed for up to 894 units. That is to say that one did not need to be designed at the time of the GP update, but when one was designed it allowed for up to 894 units. With as clear and concise as city staff seems to be in presenting things to the city council, it seems that this was explained to Patti when she voted for it.

As for the reason for my question about the 693 versus 700, thank you for understanding that the difference was the acres, that was part of my point. The reason that I asked was to express that the city council did what you wanted. 700 homes as you have called for in your comments about RL for North Fillmore.

The housing bubble as in the late 1980 and early 1990's the housing market depreciated, and first time buyers lost their shirts, but those that bought in early still made a bundle, I know I did. However, as you have stated even when you first bought a home it was expensive and hard to afford. Think about this though, homes have been increasing at 24-34% per quarter for the last several years, know throw into inflation at around 3%, and even if prices comes down the home are still very very very expensive for those “work force home buyer” that have not earned increases in revenue at the rate of the home price increases.

As for Patti’s comments, do you listen to her at the city council meetings, she is very condescending, if not down right rude to the city council and staff. Her comments are mean in spirit and articulation, with a body language that goes hand in hand with this. I am glad I watch it from the comforts of my home, otherwise the tension would be to high to bear. I would refer you to some of her comments for more elaboration, if you do not see it then you never will, and in this I agree to disagree.

 
At 11/18/06 10:06 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gayle, lets leave the PAC thing alone, I agree to dissagree with on this as well, they are trying to influence, they assume to represent all, when in fact they do not, there postings in th gazette were smaller then ones they complained about to the cityu council, and did not include all the meetings, and thus were by invite only, even as you have stated in reply to me. They are truly lobbying their agenda, and pulling out all the stops including a referendum that used fear tactics, if these are not the actions of a PAC then I FOF is a member of the girl scouts.

 
At 11/18/06 10:11 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gayle you stated, I know what the referendum asked for and that was to stop the first of four legislative acts to adopt the NFSP. Since the first act fell, the rest fell. In Roger Myers OPINION, the land use designation doesn't matter. But, why did they do it anyway then?
Response, as I have been trying to illustrate, the reason is that the NFSP is a very specific master plan, the land use designation does not matter because the 2003 GP Update called for a master plan, since the NFSP meets that criteria and is less then 894 with less then 5-20 DU per acre it meets the criteria set forth by the 2003 GP UPdate that Patti voted for, and thus changing the designation from Master Plan to Specific plan only made it so that the NFSP had more teeth to it. The referendum only asked that the designation to NFSP be removed or undone, thus it reverted back to the Master plan disignation, and again fit all that criteria.

 
At 11/18/06 2:33 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

9:58 Anonymous.
Give it up.
I read some of you babel, at least Gracy and others make sense and they are not attacking anyone.
I understand what everyone here is saying about you.
Give it up, stop being so undesirable and just as Rodney King said, "Can't we all just get along".

 
At 11/19/06 7:41 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

First let me clarify, Gracy is the one that does the personal attacks that is all she is good for a laugh, she is a joke. As for Rodney King, get a long after he smoked crack and doing PCP, than refusing to listen to the cops, that whole thing could have been avoided if he just listened. So thank you for the analogy, it proves my point, which we need to listen to each other, and not the ramblings of a woman who simply does not get it, PATTI, or you emotional epitaphs.

As far as you not understanding what we Anon's are writing that is a personal thing, I would suggest that you go back to school and learn English, Gayle and even Gracy understand what the anons are writing thus there responses to what is written. I would pose though that you do not understand because it is not what you want to hear.

Gayle stated that this blog was designed to discuss the issue or as gracy put to have a Colloquy, however, one sided conversations about how great and righteous you all are simple is not this. We anons express facts that you all summarily dismiss, and replace with emotional BS, not one of you can respond, at least Gayle puts forth some effort. But the rest of you, act like your in elementary school, I truly am saddened for your children if you are their role models.

 
At 11/19/06 10:59 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

See Anon 7:41,
Now you are attacking Rodney King and Patti again.
Get a life.
You sound like a sore loser, Like Smedley and Conaway because Conaway doesn't have the Male majority anymore.
Now that said,I am taking Gracy's advice and some of the other Anon and will ignore your negative Comments.
Get a life!!!!

 
At 11/19/06 11:00 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

P.S Anon 7:41
I do understand that everyone here has an open mind.
Everyone tries to have a meaningful conversation.

EXCEPT FOR YOU!!!!!

 
At 11/19/06 5:05 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

out with the old in with the new.
get over it. life go's on. live with it..

 
At 11/21/06 9:16 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

So how many times has Rodney King been arrested since the whole thing. What is that at least 4 times, what a great role model, he should be on the cover of Wheaties.

 

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