Marc O and I discuss density
Marc O said...
"My opinion is that by keeping the north Fillmore land destination as residential low, Fillmore may experience a housing shortage in the next 10-15 years "
I can understand how you would think that. It's reapeated often enough. First, the 5 units per acre (Residential Low), is the same density in Rosewood, Hometown and Riverwalk. It is the average density for the entire city. It is NOT half acre lots!
Second, I doubt that we will experience a housing shortage for these reasons,
- Our actual true growth rate is 0% and actually declined by two persons last year. I do know that the state always says "emergency" and we have to anticipate massive influx but what if they are wrong? It appears they are. If the Federal Government decides to have an open border policy, we would probably have that much growth.
- There is a lot of housing inventory in the real estate market and rental market right now - little bit of a housing bubble.
- The SCAG forecast is predicting a population of 16,597 for 2015. Right now we are at 15,800. Our General Plan is 37% higher than SCAG.
- There are a lot of projects being built right now or getting permits that are way over the projected SCAG forecasts(24%) for dwelling units.
Umm...can you explain the part about "serious manipulation of the housing market"? Fillmore has the lowest prices already in Ventura County. And, they are going down as we speak.
"This may also encourage development outside of the curb line. "
What IS going to encourage development outside of the CURB line is the rapid buildout of Fillmore. That is the what the developer's(and their "consultants" )goal is. If we can be completely built out by 2020, then they can start to annex Bardsdale and Grand Avenue.
posted by Gayle Washburn @ 12:35 AM
39 Comments
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39 Comments:
Gayle..
If houses have to be built in North Fillmore.
Then I would agree that 5 Dwelling Units per Acre is acceptable.
That count is similar to the count per acre on Fillmore’s East Side.
The lots here are about 5400-sq. ft, nice size lots for Single Family Houses.
Gayle do you know what the North Fillmore Specific Plans count of
Dwelling Units and the square footage per Lot is?
Also with the growth I agree with you.
I moved here in 1978, the population was 9000
Now it is 2006, population 15000.
In a 28yr time frame, the population grew by 6000.
At this rate the population will be 21000 in the year 2034.
Huh my understanding from multiple sources, from Kevin McSweeney at multiple NFSP meetings to the actual NFSP docs is that Hometown is 6 units per acre, and traditions is 11 per acre. The NFSP states that the average units per acre is the same as hometown approximately 6 units per acre at an average lot size of 5500 - 6000 square feet. But what is more important about the specific plan is that is zones for density. From the outside in higher density on the inside and lower on the outside. The nice thing about the specific plan is that
A as adopted by the city council it reduced the general plan from a maximum of 894 units to only 700.
B had provisions to grandfather businesses, with the emphasis being on not forcing businesses out.
C it created a plan for the entire area so that devlopers did not just put any project but one that had to conform to the specific plans criteria.
in general I liked the concept, just not the number of homes.
Again the referandum has reverted it back to the general plan allowing for a maximum of 894 units.
As for the homes everyone should know that home sales are cyclical, thus right now the market may be adjusting to the huge spikes in home prices and increased interest rates, but when our economy was in recession the driving force to keep it from becoming a depression was the real estate market and new home manufacturing combined with Mr Greenspan keeping the interest at a minimum. The market will again turn to a sellers market, but the question is when. If you remember in the late 1980 and early 1990's the market dropped out and people lost their shirts then BAM the market saw as much as 34% increases in the price of homes within a quarter.
gracy I haven't verified your numbers as being fact, but will stipulate that they are. I think I can live with a 1.095% growth rate as the city grows to 21,000 within the next 28 years. Initially I thought the city was growing at some crazy rate until you explained it. Thanks.
Anonymous 10:31.
Thanks
I do appreciate the time you spent.
But my questions are directed to Gayle.
I am politely saying, I do not know who you are.
I do know Gayle though.
She is very knowledgeable and accurate with her counts.
For the last year Gayle has been diligently researching the NFSP and
all that is needed to become one of Our Best Councilwomen ever.
As for the parcel footage I used the words, similar and about.
My figures are not accurate; all parcels’ are different in sizes.
Not all acres on the Eastside have 5 “DU” per acre some have more.
Anonymous, 11:38
Thanks
I really wasn’t trying to explain the growth.
I was showing the figures I have been aware of for years.
I have lived here for 28yrs; I remember the population count when we moved here.
When I read and hear the population booming, I shake my head with disbelief.
Our Town's growth history has always been slow.
I conclude it is the Developers that are the ones who try to convince us otherwise.
Now Gayle..
All this talk about the Referendum,
please tell me.
Did the City Council repeal their "Land Use Rights" ?
Does that mean, No Rights to Build?
Please correct me and explain.
So many myths , so little time. I must question why Diane McCall has not made any public statements regarding the decision from the council in regards to the referendum. Has Diane discussed her intentions of supporting or opposing the referendum, the same for Laurie Hernandez? These two individuals want to represent us but not discuss pertinent information. This is a perfect example on why the trust factor is so important. My main concerns are still with Diane McCall and Ken Smedley.
Responsible , smart growth and will be accountable then surely cast your votes for Washburn/Walker.
OR
Extreme growth, doesnt believe in letting the people actually vote on the referendum, believes in a Napoleon type government then you have numerous choices this year, cast your votes for these individuals:
1. Ken Smedley
2. Diane McCall
3. Linda Roberts
4. Laurie Hernandez
Please forgive me for providing what is actually the real numbers, Gayle tends to leave out the remainder of sentences. For instance, when she was discussing the Home, the north Fillmore General plan etc... She stated that it limited it to 5 uniits per acre. in reality the remainder of the sentence in the general plan is a 5-12 units per acre, thus 894 is the maximum for the the NFSP area. I would suggest that you the same scrutinizing techniques that you use for the other candidates towards what any candidate states. They are trying to sell you on the fact that they are what is best for Fillmore. In reality it is our responsibility as citizens to hold our candidates acountable for their statements. Including the current city council, the difference of course that I am willing to listen to them with an open mind and willing to do the research to find out what the truth is and not the spin. AS for ClaireK pull your head out of the sand and try to think outside your bias you might learn something.
I would like to know what roy payne makes per year and what other projects he is involved with?
The same goes with Tom Ristau?
As far as taxes and how they are spent, i have grave concerns on the logic versus rhetoric that the city, along with the developers spam out to the public.
Is it fiscally irresponsible to have triple dipping consultants indulging in our taxes and then saying its the lawsuits that are eating up our so-called revenue.
This the CULTURE OF CORRUPTION AT ITS FINEST!
Anonymous 3:57
How nice of you to express yourself.
Is that why your name is Anonymous.
You will listen with an open mind, how would we know?
Your Anonymous???
All stay on track and ignore the negative comments
Anonymous 4:18
The last Report from the Cities Finance Director, Warrant List for September, Accounts Payables is on
The Cities Website. Below is a link
http://www.fillmoreca.com/docs/agendas/9-12-06.pdf
Scroll to Page 5, - 260
If you want to find out Payments for September have at it.
Hi Gayle,
Your research and knowledge about the NFSP as well as the SCAG forecasts' are impressive. Thank you for taking the time to explain your views on this to me.
To clarify my statement regarding "manipulation", I simply feel that by not allowing high density development to occur in this area;
A) One is tampering with housing costs.
1. 5-7 homes per acre will most likely influence a drive to build larger single family homes keeping home prices all but affordable for those in the median income level. Recent demographic data reveals that Fillmore has the lowest per capita income level in the county.
2. Larger single family homes will cater to the higher end market leaving out a diversified Fillmore market with a need for more apartment and condo dwellings. NFSP filled that void. (Heritage Valley project is already catering to the high end market)
You state that Fillmore already has the lowest housing prices is Ventura County (I'm assuming that you meant median housing price). That may be true however Fillmore's median price is the lowest in a county with the second highest median price in Southern California second only to Orange County. Fillmore's median housing price is still above the state and national average.
With respect to the anticipated housing shortage, I agree that there is a lot of housing inventory in the real estate market but does that market exist in Fillmore? Will that inventory still exist in 10-15 years in Fillmore anticipating a 1% yearly growth rate? To me it just seems that many will be left out in the cold.
My theory on the CURB line is that development will inevitably occur outside of this border. Higher density may help slow this down.
My theory on SCAG is that just, their data is simply a theory itself, not law.
Thank you again for your time.
Just because one is anon does not mean that they do not have an open mind one thing has nothing to with the other. As for the web site, great link, I looked it over and would like to look much more closely, I wonder though why a 75 gallon water heater cost, what was it, ~1700, i need to check the number I am not sure if it was around 1200 or 1700, and a faucet for the kitchen at 238 why not get a cheaper one, or is the thought to get one with a lifetime warrenty, I am not sure, but it seems as though some things could have been done for less expenditure.
Anon 517 excellent points, Clear and well thought out. My only question is even if the price per home was let say for arguments sake $300,000.00 and a family of 4 had $100,000.00 to put down that still means a loan of $200,000.00 at lets say 6% interest for 30 years, that is still a payment of ~$1400-1600 dollars. Now lets us get a little more reality driven a home for 500,000.00 with the same $100,000.00 down that is a monthly payment of lets say ~$2800.00 a month or $33600.00 a year. If we go by the average income in ventura county of $76,000.00 dollars gross and take away 33% for taxes = $50,920.00 less the payments leaves them with 17320 a month, throw in utilities, insurance, food, gas, etc... and that person simply can not afford it.
I think that your point is an excellent one, most homes in Fillmore will not be affordable to first time buyers, persons making the average income in Ventura etc... thus Single Family detached homes, on larger lots is the way to go in my opinion. However, there is one caviot, this can only happen if the market will bare it. In other words, with our schools, lack of shopping, lack of resturants, etc... what is the reason they would move to Fillmore. For me it is the air, the view, the people, and location to so many other activities. But is this enough?
new question Gayle if you are elected how will Patti be involved in your decision making process? Will you represent ALL THE CITIZENS OF FILLMORE or just the concerned citizens PAC? If Patti is elected how will she over come the contraversy surrounding her, and no I am not talking about 2 years ago, I could care less about that, I am talking the threat of referendums, initiatives, etc...?
What do you will happen if Diane and Hernandez are elected? The reason I am asking is becuase that is who I am seriously thinking of voting for, but had not completely made up my mind and was interested in seeing the thoughts of others on this.
As far as Patti being controversial , thats pure gossip and innuendos. If Gayle and patti are entrusted to our city council , I know for a fact Patti and Gayle will make their own decisions and not be influenced by special interests, so basically they are their own persons.
The Citizens for Responsible Growth is NOT a pac. Please refer to what a pac is . Im sure the Secretary of state , Mr. Bruce McPherson can explain in full detail in what a pac is and how money is raised and spent. Fillmore has two well known pacs , so maybe the founder of these pacs can explain if that is more convenient. These lawsuits are not to be blamed on a single person or a group . The blame must be shed upon our city. Nottaking short cuts or partaking in say shady backroom deals might be key to solving our LAWSUITS. Arrogance, dictorial montra do nothing positive but create fiascos. So if you are actually AGAINST LAWSUITS , then you obviously believe city hall needs to be changed. I sure do!
TO ANON,
IF DIANE AND LAURIE ARE ELECTED I BELIEVE IT WILL BE LIKE ITS IS NOW. OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS NOT ONLY DONT LISTEN THEY DEMEAN. DIANE AND LAURIE HAVE NOT SHOW ANY LEADERSHIP WHAT SO EVER IN REGARDS TO THE REFERENDUM. TAKE TUESDAY EVENING FOR EXAMPLE. DID THEY GET UP AND SPEAK ABOUT IT. I SURE WOULD OF LIKED TO HEAR WHAT THEY HAD TO SAY. I DONT CARE IF THEY WERE FOR IT OR AGAINST IT , I WANTED TO KNOW THEIR OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS. ISNT THAT WHAT A FULL TIME LEADER DOES? AS FOR LAURIE , SHE DOESNT GIVE ANSWERS, SHE TAP DANCES AROUND THESE IMPORTANT ISSUES.
MY ONLY OPTION THIS YEAR TO CAST MY VOTES FOR WALKER AND WASHBURN.
SO THERE IS NO CONFUSION, I DECIDED ON TUESDAY EVENING AFTER I WATCHED THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING.
Me too
the council meeting last tuesday,helped me decide.
i liked seeing patti & gayle up there speaking for those who signed the referendum. how sad to see ernie yelling like that
Vote your conscience. If you think change is in order then cast your vote that way. Why relive another round of the Walker and her "my way or the highway" dialog? As a business person I don't want to see her influence on the Council. It almost tore the city apart last time. Now she wants to run again. Not my vote, not this time around and not ever in the future.
I've seen the dropped ball too many times by her. Her stint as President on the Chamber of Commerce has created problems that the general public has yet to hear. She did nothing for the downtown businesses. Another position to obtain, another wake of controversy left behind.
A critical comment for Gayle. Your thoughts seem disjointed. I am listening and would like to hear you pull it all together so I could make a better call prior to casting my vote. Keep working and get out on your own. I don't think the team campaign thing is working in your best interest.
I am voting for Patti, because she is honest.
It takes 3 votes and a wise attorney to vote correctly.
For the last 2yrs all the votes from the city council was for developers.
It is apparent that their dissions have cost our good city these lawsuits.
Not Patti, she is 1 person.
Not just that she has not been in office for 2yrs, get a life.
Your nonsense will not work this election
yes you have an opinnion but so do I.
I find you to be casting rhetoric towards one who is honest and is looking out for the citizens here in fillmore.
Your rhetoric seems to be in favor of all this contruction and the stripping of our agricultural land.
I think all of you Developers and PAC members need to take a hike out of our town.
anon 8:32am
yes im glad you can see through the culture of corruption at its finest. i have great faith and trust in patti and gayle that they will only beholden to the citizens of fillmore , NOT roger campbell, or the developers. seems thats why roger campbell and michael mcmahan are all over fillmore spreading gossip and threats. thats quite sad and blatantly sick. i will cast my votes for change. WASHBURN/WALKER IS OUR ONLY CHOICE.
Anonymous 6:07 pm
My comments to the council last Tuesday did not use the word "lawsuits." My comments were made in order to remind them and the city attorney that according to the Fillmore Zoning Ordinance anyone can submit a written request for a reconsideration of a council decision within 15 days of the council meeting. By approving tentative tract maps (a form of entitlement) they are precluding the citizens rights afforded to them under the ZO.
I believe the council would be in support of allowing the community to retain their voice. Don't you?
Patti
Okay, 1 st it is nice to finally see some rational behind your comments. Not just BLAH BLAH BLAH, or comments on my ignorance, which I am not. But again Patti had a lot of contraversy that last time she was elected, she hurt the city what is to make believe that if elected this time around that it will not be more of the same? In fact and maybe she could spread some light on this, there is a rumor that she is threatening to make the city staff's lives so miserable that they quit and find another town. So I ask is the amount of contraversy what the town needs. For me the answer is no, for you maybe it is yes. Then there is Patti's association the concerned citizens PAC and for your information her is websters definition of a PAC
"Main Entry: political action committee
Function: noun
: a group formed (as by an industry or an issue-oriented organization) to raise and contribute money to the campaigns of candidates likely to advance the group's interests "
Based on this the concerned citizens is a PAC, their opinions may or may not be what the majority of citizens may feel, but as we all probably know the one that screams the loadest generally prevailes, unless the righteous (and I am not saying the city council is neccessarily) stay their ground. Will Patti actually do what the majority wants or what the concerned citizens want?
Anonymous 6:07 PM:
Three questions here...
"new question Gayle if you are elected how will Patti be involved in your decision making process?"
I would definitely want to get Patti's or any other knowledgeable person's take on an issue just for an additional perspective. But, as Patti will tell you, I have a lot of resources that I employ to make decisions.
I would hope to represent all of the citizens including the Citizens for Responsible Growth(they are not a PAC). We have conducted a random survey to determine what the concerns of the public were. I would hope to address those concerns. We do need to involve the public as much as possible in these big decisions. Believe it or not there are ways to get a concensus on issues.
Referendums and Initiatives are occurring frequently. Why? I think the public everywhere is fed up with large, high density projects. They see their quality of life diminishing while expenses go up. They also see that they don't have a voice in their city's destiny.
I think if Patti and I get elected we will do our best to ensure public participation and consensus.
Right now, the NFSP is controversial, but it didn't HAVE to be. You can't blame Patti, me or Citizens for Responsible Growth for that.
Since the public hearings in April, many, many people have asked for a lower density project. At every hearing, a plea for negotations has been made.
The Planning Commission approved a lower density project at 480. The Planning Commission and City Council repeatedly asked to see a lower density project but were refused every time.
Now that's a question you need to ask...why not?
Thank you for your reponse Gayle, I can respect your statements, but I still have more questions then answers, for instance you keep going back to Patti, even when asked about this you stated "get Patti's or any other knowledgeable person's take on an issue just for an additional perspective. But, as Patti will tell you, I have a lot of resources that I employ to make decisions." Did you notice that Patti is mentioned far to many times in these sentences, I would suggest that you start thinking more independantly, right know you sound like a puppet. I would suggest that start this by making statements that do not come from Patti's notebook. With regards to the NFSP, I thought that the numbers, and a graphic were given to the city council based on their request??
Gayle if elected to city council I hope you do not feel that the persons in the audience represent the whole of Fillmore, that is like Maxin Waters telling everyone she represents all the citizens of Watts, or Jesie Jackson stating he represents all the african american people in the world. Etc... While the audiences participation is important and they do represent a section of Fillmore, they do not represent all of it and possibly not even the majority. From what I saw it was the same 4-6 people speaking everytime. 4-6 people do not represent the 15000 that live in Fillmore.
Anonymous 9:22AM:
This is kinda making me laugh...YOU asked the question and I was answering it.
Your puppet comments are meant to be insulting but you mostly sound angry.
As far as NFSP, if you are asking about maps with alternative densities...I think that's what you mean... there were several requests by planning commissioners and council members that they see lower density plans but they never got them.
Anonymous 9:26 AM:
You keep forgetting about the 1600 who signed the Referendum. A good percentage of the electorate. We were their voice. It's been pointed out many times that getting those signatures was effortless.
I would like to see more efforts made to get more citizen input and participation. The current outreach is dismal at best.
My former neighbor told me that she wanted to get involved and went to some Vision 2020 meetings and was treated with hostility and ignored. She moved to Atascadero because she was so disappointed in this town. I've heard stories like this over and over.
Can't we at least TRY to build a better community?
anonymous:
I wonder who you are getting rumors from? They sound a little extreme and unrealistic. Step away from the PAC people.
Speaking of PAC's. Read my keystrokes. The. Citizens. for. Responsible. Growth. is. not. a. PAC. They don't have any money and have not contributed any to any campaigns. Every PAC has to lawfully file documents with the city clerk. Go look for yourself. Be sure and check ALL of the PAC's and candidates.
Please see my definition, of a PAC from websters dictionary, while I understand that a legal PAC needs to register as a PAC, this does not mean that the citizens is not a PAC.
Anonymous 7:53 AM: Sorry to let so much time pass before addressing your comments...lots of work to be done.
Well, share with us your Chamber of Commerce stories. I'm not hearing a lot of support for the Chamber of Commerce regardless of whether Patti is involved in it or not.
If you think the topics and comments are disjointed(I can see how you would htink that), I suggest you check out my website.
www.washburn4fillmore.com for more information.
Or, if you have specific issues that you want to discuss you can always call me at 524-7313. The writing takes a lot of time especially when I might have already addressed an issue on another topic.
Hey Gayle I believe that this question has been asked before, but it seems as though Patti is skirting the issue, everyone knows that "something" happened to make it so she was the pres for what 3 weeks and asked to step down, but no one know why and what the true story is, so instead of asking what we have heard and spreading any more rumors what not simply ask Patti to answer the question with her own words and put it to rest once and for all, that is unless the chamber dissagrees with her perspective.
Gayle 839 and 855 nope sorry to dissapoint, but there is no anger, but with regards to your puppet comments, it is only an observation. An observation based on a lot of your comments and statements about different topics, they are very similar to Patti's if not the exact same words. My question is why? Why are not reading the material and drawing your own conclusions, why are not talking with city staff and other council persons and then using critical thinking in you analysis of all the information you have gathered to draw your own conclusions. Instead you repeat what Patti has stated.
With regards to the NFSP lower density maps, my understanding with talking with city staff is that they were created and given both the planning commissioners and the city council. THe planning department went on to state that while the tract map may look similar the densities were reflected differently in the track maps handed out. I am not sure about this since I have not seen the different track maps, but I would suggest that you ask Kevin if he has a copy of them.
One more question with regards to the referendum.
It occured to me as I was reading a lot of the comments that it would be safe to assume that very few of the people who signed the petition took the time to read it. from what I recall it was presented at VONS and the person only asked for me to sign it. I did, based on the information I was TOLD by the person that asked me to sign it. My point is that it seems as though a good percentage of people including myself signed it without reading it and truly understanding the entire issue. Isn't this one of the reasons that referendums and initiatives can be a dangerous tool?
For example look at prop 90, sounds good right, but depending on who you talk to there are hugely different stories as to why one should or should not vote for it. I did a little research and low and behold it was writen by someone from I believe New York, it forces cities to think vary carefully about projects for fear of being suid, etc... The end result, mass law suits costing cities millions per year.
Another example might be the special election from a year or two ago, the unions spin on the props was amazing, lets see change the lines of the districts to remove the garuntee that politicians will be re-elected, hold teachers accountable, etc.. but the unions completely twisted if not down right lied about the props to use fear to defeat the props. and people bought it.
Gayle 855 Hearsay, no names, no dates, no information as to who said what when and were. Was interpretation of what was said or was it truthful, if it was then that is a shame, if not then what a shame to spread hearsay around.
responding to anon 9:14
regarding the accusation Patti is threatening to make staff miserable. I doubt it. In fact if anything Walker is concerned about having a good relationship with staff. She has expressed as much to me. And since I know the majority of staff, if not all, has a responsible and civil relationship with the public and respect for our system of government they will do the right thing and treat her with a respectful attitude as I'm sure she will them. And think about this, there was a time when Walker had a conflict with Smedley while on the council she actually asked a local minister to mediate between them so they would not continue to squabble. Sounds like a rather Christian thing to do, at the very least it was civil. Smedley on the other hand accused her of violations even the owner of the Gazette later admitted were disproved. And Ken never even had the decency to apoligize even though Roy Payne did. And recall the fact that Smedley falsely accused her of violating the code of ethics while she was out of town at her father's funeral and was unable to defend herself. Talk about a mean spirited thing to do. Come to think of it Walker was on the council before Smedley. Do you suppose he was afraid she would obtain the Mayor Pro Tem status he so coveted? The good ol boys network and all? Remember they passed Cuevas up for Mayor as well.
Thank you for jogging my memory. It's refreshing to take this trip down memory lane. Perhaps it would better help me to know which direction to vote since I still cannot decide. Fortunately Smedley seems in his interview with the Star this week to be willing to work with Walker if they are both elected. Start praying folks. Countdown begins.
Anonymous 8:46 PM:
I don't think Patti is "skirting" any issue. It's my guess that she is just taking the high road in trying not to spread gossip or hurt the chamber.
There is a comment on the Short Takes topic at 9:56 PM: that you might want to read. Evidently, the Chamber was upset that Patti was interviewed by the paper. Doesn't make sense to me but that's the only story that I've heard.
Anonymous 8:26 PM:
Her name is Sandy Graham. She was the secretary for our HOA. I didn't ask her exactly which meeting it was. I think there were several. This was a couple of years ago. She said that she fell in love with Fillmore and couldn't wait to become involved and serve the community.
I, like you, was in disbelief and insisted that it had to be a misunderstanding. Why wouldn't any community embrace her and want her to be involved? She was intelligent, hard working, financially responsible...hmmm... sounding a little familiar.
Anonymous 8:23:
Well, you'll have to give me some specific comments and statements. I guess the "responsible growth" might be a common statement. I find it strange that you would say I'm not reading the material. If you could see my office and hard drive!
I have come to my own conclusions and if by happy coincidence someone else comes up with the same conclusions I guess you could call that a consensus.
You make a good point about the referendum. I don't think it is dangerous though. The process is daunting and complicated and the legal aspects obviously can't even be explained clearly by the city attorney.
But, it is clearly the only power that the public has any more to have a voice. This was a new experience to me. In my ignorance and idealism, I expected reasonable arguments to prevail.
I can see how even reasonable arguments though carry no weight when it was all committed to long ago. The public hearing process is too late. Is that by intent? I don't know but that's what it's for.
Gayle, reading and storage oif material is of no consequence when you do not comprehend what is being stated in the material. As for the consensus, it seems that the only consensus is with your puppetmaster Patti, 1600 referendum signatures is not hard to get, give a piece of paper that states that Fillmore crime needs to be fixed and I can get 100000000000 signatures especially if I employ mis information, scare tactics and etc.... when the fact remains that With these signatures all I have stated is that it needs to be fixed, so what the question is how. The referendum did nothing but create more problems for the city and its residents, forcing the city council to make a decision to repeal the NFSP, as it required, less the citizens vote on it, with a special election, materials to get the right information to the citizens, and a lot of other costly informative pamphlets. Then when they repeal their decision and put us back of track with a peice meal devlopment at 894 homes, you all complain about it, come it is like trying to have your cake and eat it too, with the caviot of smut tactics when the city council repeals their decision on the NFSP, I.E. you got your cake but foujnd out you didn't like it.
Anonymous 9:14 AM:
What the referendum did was let the city know that we are moving in the wrong direction. It's too bad they don't want to listen.
If you have access to city attorney Roger Myers opinion, I urge you to read it. As I posted the final "whereas" on a previous topic, you should know that it says the referendum had no affect on the NFSP. If you would like to see the opinion let me know and I will try to post it on the blog for all to read. There is NOT a piecemeal development of 894 and you can read the opinion to figure it out.
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